New Zealand Gold Prospecting & Metal Detecting Forums Archive

And here's where they are blowing those savings - over the top infrastructure for tourists:

http://www.odt.co.nz/new...mote-long-drops-replaced

it seems if you live around here you only find out what's these boffins are up to if you ready the bloody paper each day.

of interest is the commercialising (or start of) of Moke Lake, a nice scenic little alpine lake not far from queenstown. not it's going to get a bollard system so your car won't fall in the lake. WTF?!

of more concern is their recent foray into the 12 Mile/Sam Summers Hut track area. the recent new highway widened path blew tonnes of rock into the river.

now they want to relocate the carpark 500 metres away because the current one is unsafe, meaning if you want to walk the track there's an extra 1km walk in it just to get to the start of it!!!

when they say access will be safer and read on you find out who it will be safer for. tour buses! i have never seen a tour bus there in all my years of going there to walk and fossick.

across the road they blew over half a million dollars making little lines for endless campers to park up. ironically these campers are still there but choose to use mainly the campsites that are more scenic and less "constructed". after it all started it was stated they were looking for a leasee to run a camp ground out there?! great except the fact where they wanted to park up all the motorhomes and "beautify it was where the floods blow thru.

when out and about i think the motto is watch out for suspicious activity. nowadays it comes in the form of a leased white 4WD with a green and yellow stripe down the side.

Lammer,
Here is where I am going to disagree with you; when the state owns something it does not belong to the people. The people have to pay for it, but the state owns it and will tell the people if and what they can do with the states property. Oh, and expect to pay a fee. Historically states have always put themselves above the citizen who is only tolerated because he a source of revenue.

Well you have presented scenarios: what the state should do, and what the state actually does. Since history shows that the state continues to grow and feed itself at the expense of the citizenry I tend to think in term of what the state is likely to do, not what they should do. The state will try and justify its continued growth and subsequent demands on citizens by saying they are providing necessary services. You have to ask yourself if all the regulations and fees are worth the expense. Are houses of a better quality because of the tens of thousands in fees and permits? Is hunting and fishing better because of the hundreds you have to pay for a license? Are driving conditions improved because of the hundreds you have to pay to register your vehicle and $.58 per litre tax? In some cases I would think it is worth it, in other cases not.

The problem is that it's in their interest to impose heaps of red tape. It gives rich Aucklanders and Wellingtonians easy jobs. We pay for them.

Exactly, there is a ruling class and there are serfs. So why then would you want to “annex all extractive industries into State ownership”?

State ownership means just that - the State is the people and the country and the political system should be elected by the people to represent them and to manage their property, the country, in their interests as beneficial shareholders through citizenship.

State ownership should be for the people and not for one class of person. At the moment it is ruled by the rich for the rich on the surface and underneath it all it is ruled by the rich for the offshore banking institutions who hold the mortgage - in other words the loan which was created before and during the era we became the 'Welfare State' - In terms of fair interest it was paid off years ago and but under the terms of the loan, fractional reserve banking - if you dont know what that is then you research it and be truly shocked at its implications to NZ and all countries who borrowed money from the International bankers - it can never be paid back. I think it is high time that we had people ruling the State FOR the people without prejudice of wealth or class and who told the offshore bankers that they have their pound of flesh now f*** off because you aint getting no more.

The serfs have just had their chance at getting rid of the politicians who are there for the rich, the famous and their offshore masters - but apparently us serfs are in the minority by two to one!

State ownership should mean the people through THEIR elected representatives and the ownership of State assets managed by the Government departments for the beneficiaries, beneficiaries in this regard meaning the citizens of the country.

In other words if it is a case of 'should' then it is also a case of ensuring that changes take place - except the sheep are too blind to see that the grass is actually greener over the fence and the gate was left open - in other words people had the chance to vote the existing political party out...and of course exchanging it for another just as bad...so a never ending circle.

These circles HAVE been broken and the countries in questions put back on its feet...except when that has happened the ruling party or regime tend to go overboard and of course power corrupts as in Hitlers Germany and the circumstances of his rise and fall from power OR one regime gets rid of another then sets itself up to a luxurious lifestyle under another name as in Stalins Russia - hence the book 'Stalin The Court of the Red Czar'.

The only thing we really disagree with is that I say the State IS the people but sadly those who get into power bow and scrape to another master and not to those who voted them in to represent them and as a result the property of the people, to whit State asset,s are sold down the drain...not just corruption but also TREASON...and why did the political system take away the death penalty for treason...to cover their own arses in view of the fact that is what they are guilty of!

Robert - your words - 'I don’t want the state to own anything.'

I do - I want the state and therefore the people to own all utilities and the land - the land belongs to the people. If the people owned the land and the State administered it for the people then the people would be able to determine their rights through their elected representatives - pretty simple really.

It has to be protected through the constitution just like the rights of the people to bear arms is in the United States...this is one of the problems that the puppet president would just love see disappear but there are now questions being asked in the US by the Presidents henchmen and their minions that 'Ok we cannot take away the arms but we can make it VERY difficult to get ammunition' - As you know different States have different laws and those who are more sympathetic to 'El presidente' are more readily willing to curtail the supply of ammunition.

So we see that nothing is safe and either a consititution has to be overtuned or it has to be circumvented - As far as the US is concerned the puppet president seems to want to circumvent it, in the case of ammunition by using mass murders as excuses to make unlawful all unmarked ammunition after a certain date and only ammunition that is coded and can be traced can be procured there after...pretty sinister dont you think?

I think it would be a big mistake to allow and encourage private ownership of land because money talks, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, the rich are also buying up the land so that in the end a handful of individuals own it all and the rights of those who wish to enter that land are totally at the whim of those half dozen landowners...I often sit at the table with a land owner who now owns a farm which once comprised the seperate farms of 25 different families - 25 farms are now one - and its getting worse.

I reiterate - the people should own the state - the State should own the land - the land should be for the people. Being a paradox and an enigma I must be a bit of a Commie and yet I am not at all - how could I be after all my own largest property I will never ever walk the boundary in a day but those who are in the poor category cant do that...and if I dont like that poor person I can tell him to bugger off - now thats not fair and if going by what you advocate the land was all privately owned then YOU would have less rights than you do now so protect what you have and strive for more by ensuring that at the end of the day the State owns the land - the State IS the people - those who run the state are no more nor any less than civil servants, servants of the people.

Party Political Broadcast over folks.

Edited by user Tuesday, 29 November 2011 7:11:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thats good that we agree on something and if the truth be known theres probably heaps we agree on - must be the Norwegian in me though I didnt know about the system in Norway.

Well, if Ron Paul gets ignored again (quite likely), maybe we could convince him to emigrate to NZ and start promoting a gold/silver standard here instead.

The state (as a collective of all citizens) should own the mineral assets. Think Albert, Canada - the citizens there pay zero tax, because the oil industry makes enough money to fund the entire government.