New Zealand Gold Prospecting & Metal Detecting Forums Archive

Greame,

So what you all are saying is that it would be best for the state to own and run the assets (in a thread that is complaining about the way the state is managing assets). It is a bit hard to follow the logic in that your are clearly unhappy with the way the government operates and have outlined many areas in which it could be improved, yet you still want to throw all the eggs in the basket and let the state look after it.

I will throw this out there; a principle of free market economics is that there is an alternative to everything. That is, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Many people’s default solution to every conceivable problem is to have the government ‘fix’ it. Invariably, this solution is the least effective and most expensive solution but is popular in that most people feel like it is going to cost someone else. I would say consider the alternatives before deciding on the least effective most expensive option.

Greame,

Need to get some work done here, and will write more later but think about this; in New Zealand ‘the people’ live in Auckland. ‘The people’ do not like mining, hunting, grazing, timbering etc and are completely in favour of charging you to tramp around on their land.

I've always liked the idea of "personal responsibility zones" scattered throughout the country.

If you buy land in such a zone, you can do anything you want on it, as long as it isn't detrimental to anywhere else. (No poisoning the water etc). You can build anything you want on it without permits, BUT if if falls down and kills you and/or your family it's TOUGH SHIT. No insurance. No ACC. No dialing 111.

We also need to come up with a system that doesn't require economic growth to survive. Right now, if you stop growing your personal wealth, slowly but surely it will be destroyed by taxes and charges. With the upcoming collapse of the global capitalist system, something else need to be put in place. I guess gold/silver-based currency would at least provide a throttling effect.

Hey guys, you both have some fair points. I tend to agree with Lammerlaw though. I agree with you one on thing though Robert, the state are extremely poor at their stewardship of our assets and money.
My point is, (and why I tend to agree with what Lammerlaw is saying)
Is that the SYSTEM needs changing.

By change I don't mean vote green, vote labour, but to completely detach from the corrupt and false monetary system which we are part of, that allows the rich bureacrats to rule our country.
The reason that there are rich and there are poor, There are politicians and there are serfs, is that some people do not understand how money is created.
Money is created out of NOTHING by a private institution and then lent to Govenments ( such as ours ) with interest charged on it.

Money is a game.

In this country, there are poor people. These people do not understand the rules of the game. Yet they continue to play it anyway. They don't know of or read the rulebook.
The middleclass, they know some of the rules, mostly learnt by trial and error. But they still don't understand the game
The rich know the rules. Knowing the rules of monopoly gives you a massive advantage over those who you are playing with does it not?

But the current rules are unfair, and corrupt. The problem is that nobody understands it. And those that do understand are rich. They run the country. There is no incentive for them to change the rules is there?

The system needs change. New Zealand needs to produce it's own legitimate and real currency. Backed by our gold.

How does this relate to stewardship and state ownership of assets? And stopping farces like DOC book removal from happening?

A massive overhaul would mean that there is a smaller gap between the law makers and working class. Which will mean that the people will be listened to ( more anyway) And there will be less cabbages like Hone Harawira, Key, Goff and Don Brash running our beautiful country.

Sorry about my ranting. I feel compelled to say something.

Don't understand why we haven't created our own currency backed by Gold, how much Gold has gone out of NZ I wonder...?

And that's just for starters!
Its no surprise really, however unless you dig, how would you know that we have that much wealth in our own land going offshore!
That's a lot of Gold which we should (NZ) should own and use to OUR benefit, however after reading a bit, seems exactly what our Govt do not want... twisted!

Robert

The government has one major objective - to stave off the inevitable by keeping its master, the offshore money lenders happy...it is THEM who run this company - to Quote Henry Ford "If the people of this country knew who was running it there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning!" or at least words to that effect.

This country is run by the dictates of the bankers - no more no less
At the second level the politicians piss in the pockets of the rich who in turn piss in the pockets of the politicians without actually realising that they have the most to lose...how ironic.
At the bottom come the people - hence forth called 'The Sheep' - blind ones at that!

I have just spend hours perving through 'Treasurenet' forums and I NOTE WELL the articles on the forum relating to ghost towns - Many are not accessible due to private ownership and subject to permission - Ah ha Robert is this what you advocate? - because that is what will happen. I noted the number of ghost town properties with Trespassers Prosecuted...or keep to the track and do not approach old buildings. Permission must be sought before visiting this town. Now I cannot give you specific towns the above relate to as I didnt expect to write this but you can see it for yourself and must indeed know the US better than I do.

I wonder who owns the land in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran etc - I really havent bothered to find out but I LOVE the lifestyle...yep would suit me fine...no restrictions like we have...who owns the land? State? Private individuals? Tribal?

I just fail to see your logic? If you compare the State owned land next to mine then there is one difference - I give permission to anyone to go tramping and I restrict it to go hunting to eight or so friends and as for gold fossicking - well thats another story.
The State land next door is open slather for hunting as long as you have a permit and that permit takes you anywhere within that conservancy, on State land for a set period - upwards of a year I think but stand to be corrected and you can go gallivanting around there to your hearts concerned. I am also fairly certain that if you were looking along rock shelves etc with a metal detector they would see that you were doing no harm but on my place its a different matter.

Now of course the government is NOT on my side - I have listed order of priorities above but private ownership is even LESS on my side unless it is ME doing the owning! I can sure in hell handle that part. I suggest you do some research to see how Suharto treated trampers, hunters and others who wanted to go on to Lilybank - that will happen here because the private ownership will become FOREIGN ownership...and their rules are not what you might expect as Suharto readily demonstrated.
It has got to the stage now where I could never, ever buy a place like mine again nor indeed my second rural property which is not as big because we are talking in terms of seven figures - not five anymore.

To summarize - the people of this country need to wake up, get rid of this system of government and bring in reform so that this country belongs to New Zealand again and is run for the citizens by a government who will not allow the dictates of the offshore bankers to take precedence, will declare the National Debt null and void as being paid off in accordance with what may be termed sufficient interest in keeping with the standard daily interest rates over the period and not under the rules of Fractional Reserve Banking. That all land become State property and open to all New Zealanders more or less as it once was and you Robert are not old enough to remember what it was like here BEFORE the offshore bankers began to dictate terms up to and immediately after WWII. There was no OSH - land owners allowed entry almost unrestricted although high country has always been mostly leasehold but they leaseholders did allow entry. Today land owners and leaseholders are scared to allow people on due to OSh laws etc - remember the kiddie in the shearing shed case? If all land was privatised it would be even worse than it is now.

I rest my case, I might even let you have the last say - but I am also aware that it is a Gold mining forum and not a political forum for left and right wing extremists. Should your ideas become the basis of the system you want then bring it on brother - bring it on - I own enough land to be more than happy and I have no restrictions on what I can do and I am number one to me!...its the rest of the populace who I would feel sorry for...but rest assured that when all State assets are privatised then you are in for a shock because FEE SIMPLE land - is your property Fee Simple? - will be annexed into state ownership to keep paying the offshore bankers and you will be paying a rent on what you currently own...sinister this privatising the state assets is dont you think...and in the end 'private' ownership will be in the hands of...you guessed it - the bankers!

Political statement and waffle session over - the final say is yours.

Edited by user Thursday, 1 December 2011 2:19:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

might as well put my 2 cents in
when i was selling my motels in arthurs pass i was requested not to sell to overseas people
but if they are the only ones who want to buy or have the money to buy why not dose one take the money and run

dont get me started on doc lived with them on my door step in arthurs pass for 5 years

here is a thought
if the goverment owned every thing , had control of it all , wouldnt that be "communism"
reds under the bed as i recall from the 60s

Did you say Arthurs Pass? - second last time I drove through there was the middle of the night and some demonic skunk took my photo with an Orange flash and two weeks later I got a very official letter with a substantial account attached.

A few years ago now I had a girlfriend whos father owned the Otira Pub apparently and she wanted me to go spend Christmas with her at Daddies pub and then she wanted me to celebrate Christmas by doing nefarious thngs to her on the bar!!!

You will of course know Bealey - up on the hill behind Bealey Lodge or whatever it is called there are rows of trees planted - when the New Zealand Forest Service started those plantings, about the second or third year, in 1969 I put out the poles to do the planting so if the rows arent straight I might have to take credit! I didnt do the actual planting because I was on light duties - a week or so before hand I virtually ripped my nose off - today you cant tell or its hard to tell - a cobber and I had a race - I went the short cut because I thought I could see in the dark but I didnt see another friends car parked across the path and sort of went from light speed to zero instantaneously.
They were however great days planting at Bealey - I remember watching the deer running ahead of a helicopter I was in ferrying trees, the snow falling with big, slow falling flakes and the Keas. We stayed in the Canterbury University hut at Cass - apparently its a high faluting mansion now.

Well the reason for the economic collapse might be socialism, but it's not the socialism directed at the poor, it's the socialism directed at the big banks. :)

Too big to fail.