New Zealand Gold Prospecting & Metal Detecting Forums Archive

Simon - I am Ngai Tahu and I have always believed that when the pioneers came here they interbred and became one people and shared everything without exception - sadly hings have changed partly by offshore greed and partly by huge conglomerates within our country trying to monopolize with the blessings of a criminal government.
Ngai Tahu sadden me with their attitude toward money and only yesterday I made a statement to a group of Ngai Tahu asking for support to purchase a farm to protect the food gathering resources of not only the people of Maori descent but the wider local community as the farm controls all access to the river including around fifty percent of the entire whitebait spawning area for that river - but I highly doubt if I will succeed because the farm cannot derive enough income to satiate their needs for more money - they will one day learn when it is too late and the so called elite rule this earth and all natural resources are gone that they cannot eat money!

Personally if I saw you with a big swag of Greenstone then I would congratulate you on the quality of the 'schist rock' you had selected for your rock garden and say no more. this is New Zealand and we are the New Zealanders without prejudice for one or another group, race or culture BUT we should NEVER allow foreigners here to purchase or control and then there would be enough for all without favouritism for one...dont even get me started!

As a jade carver who knows Bevan ( the guy on tv tonight ) I have to say things are in a bad way with the greenstone industry. Bevan has a good and sharing attitude toward the stone and is generous with passing on his knowledge and skills too. He does say what he believes and did so in the case against the helicopter pilots too. He is now being punished for giving evidence on their behalf.
Ngai Tahu were given control of the stone in the pounamu vesting act, and most within the industry thought they would continue acting much as the crown had; ie selling mining consents and getting a royalty from new stone as it was taken. Perhaps even sell a gathering permit for the small stuff on well picked over areas.
Instead their higher ups decided they would try to monopolise the whole industry, they are attempting to extract every cent they can from every level of the industry. Pay a registration fee, pay for the stone, pay a percentage again from every piece sold, forget it, I'd rather give up.
Stone is being withheld from the carvers in an attempt to force up the price. The small amount of stone for sale on their web site appears to be very poor quality and ridiculously overpriced.
They claim that all stone is either; sourced through them, imported or stolen black market jade. This is an attempt to illigitimise (to coin a word) all of the unworked stone that has been legally sold, given, found, mined from jade mining permits or just been around local family homes for generations. The quantities involved are quite large, for example just 3 miners in South Westland took out around 60 tons each of stone in just the last year of their mining licences. Westland Greenstone Ltd recently sold several tonnes they apparently didn't need. A few local families gathered stone and supplied factories for generations and still have a few tons lying around. All together this is a lot of pounamu, all totally legally obtained. Casting doubt on the legality of this stone, can only be seen as an attempt to obtain it for no outlay. It's all about the money.
I guess you can take this as an example of how they would act if they ever got control of foreshore and seabed.
Nuggy

Edited by user Tuesday, 11 September 2012 12:41:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: grammar

1) Ngai Tahu give generous grants to their beneficiaries - they have a banking scheme whereby the young people are encourged to bank and for every dollar they bank Ngai Tahu will subsidise it dollar for dollar up to I think 100/100 per year or 200/200 per year - the oldies get a monetary gift every year, generous Educational Grants are made and every runanga and there are eighteen of them get substantial funding every year to run their projects and businesses.

2)Now you think about wind and water rights and think about them carefully - initially I thought it was a load of baloney as we should all own them - after all we are all New Zealanders BUT have we all done anything about the governments crooked offshore dealings - they are selling the power companies to offshore interests/shareholders - what does that mean? it means that offshore interests are using OUR water and OUR wind to make money! If we own the water and wind then we control the rights to the money - certain Maori tribes realised this and have done something about the rights to the water being owned by Maori - personally I think it should be all New Zealanders but better Maori control the wind and water than offshore interests.

As it is right now Federated Farmers think they own the water as the well to do farmers have water rights that allow them to nearly drain the rivers without thought nor consideration for the wild life and fisheries, fishermen, boaties, picnickers and swimmers, gold fossickers and all other decent Kiwis who want a day by the river. In Early December last year I could have walked across EVERY river between Dunedin and Christchurch including the Waitaki anjd Rakaia without swimming.

What is going on in this country is totally criminal.

Lammerlaw, I agree with your last sentence, but we would differ on the actions that it refers to.

For those that are interested, this should tell you what you can take and where you can take it from.

http://www.ngaitahu.iwi....namu-Management-Plan.php

Edited by user Tuesday, 11 September 2012 11:14:33 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

icemaneli:

that's a good point. greenstone is more common that many believe.

i know someone that found a small stone of it at the shot over.

which got me thinking. many people collect such little stones. many don't have a clue what each stone actually is. sure would suck to get busted with such.

but i don't think it is that that they are after.

like you said it is about controlling a plentiful resource and limiting supply. you control the supply and up go the prices.

if things were to go down the moral high road you think none would be allowed to be sold to however and leave the country.

but that's not what it seems to be about is it.

just glad gold wasn't part of maori society or we would all be out of luck. perhaps it too would all be confiscated and locked away in someone's container, never to be returned to the waterway where it came from.

Gee whizz if only the Treaty of Waitangi had been more clear about who gets what... and how many glass beads should be given to who.....

hatter: that about sums it up really.

You are quite correct saying that the price will go up - the electricity generating plants were all State owned utilities and generated power for the people who were the owners by default - that is the peoples were supposed to own the country and the government governed the assets of the people - until we became the welfare state - became effectively bankrupt because we could not pay the National Debt which we had created by borrowing under the criminally insane system known as Fractional reserve banking - the offshore money masters then demand behind closed doors that the Government then sells its state assets - Communications, Railways, Electricity generation and so on - so that we, the New Zealanders dont cotton on to the truth we are given a chance to buy our own shares in what we owned anyway - of course only the really wealthy could do it. Of course the rich and getting richer an dthe poor are getting poorer - this country is becoming divided into the 'Ruling class' and the 'Serfs' - those who will eventually be on a subsistence living.
New Zealanders should see the writing on the wall and kick the government out and annex the old State assets back into State control.
Yes the price will go up - what I am saying is that before these foreign companies own the rights to the water and wind then the Maoris should own it - I think their claim is justified from that perspective BECAUSE the rest of us Kiwis are sitting back apathetically and letting it all happen.

The consents can still be allocated because the water also runs underground and the more consents then the lower the underground water table - it is a totally criminal action but once again the majority of New Zealanders are apathetic and Federated Farmers are getting too powerful - money speaks.

The greenstone should belong to all of us - All New Zealanders should have a right to go get some and the right to mine it legally for commercial purposes should be by licence. The chap in question says he has a traditional right -that is correct but traditionally Maori took it for practical purposes - to make tools and weapons and to trade in small amounts to other tribes for other resources like food. They could only take what they could carry as they travelled on foot and had to carry their everyday survival needs with them as they moved form place to place.
Today the demand is such for commercial purposes that stringent controls need be kept on who can and cannot access it for commercial and pecuniary gain and I guess this is where this fellow has overstepped the mark.

Not in the case of monopolies. Not in the case of necessities of life.



This is the old excuse used to sell off Telecom in the 80s.

Prior to the sale, they had an efficiency drive, installing new digital exchanges and changing the organisation so that phonelines were installed pretty much on-demand instead of months of waitlisting.

They made it so efficient that the entire South Island was going to be one single free calling area (which is why the whole south island is 03).

After sale to the Merkins/Canadians, the new owners decided they could make a lot more money if current toll call areas remained. They also rented out Alcatel telephones that cost them around $1 to buy from the factory in Masterton for $5 a month to pensioners who didn't have the knowledge to realise they were being ripped off.

Public companies duties are to their shareholders, not their customers.

In the old days Telecom was employment/staff orientated. Prior to it's sale it became service/customer orientated (efficient, while still govt owned) and then after sale become shareholder orientated - while a virtual monopoly - and the NZ public were rogered for years for telco services.

I know which one I prefer.

This whole "privatisation= good" dogma is simply propaganda to asset strip nations for the ultimate benefit of a few at the top. See: Telmex/Carlos Slim.

There are other options, which involve hiring capable people to run public trusts, who are not in it to feather their own nests.

bring on communism