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Seeking Permission from Land Owners

gavin		Posted : Tuesday, 15 June 2010 4:11:43 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		When asking permission from landowners to detect / fossick on their land, what are everyone's preferred methods? Do you prefer to go up and knock on their door? Find a tel number and ring them up? Do you offer a percentage of findings to keep them sweet? Cheers in advance, Gavin :)
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criticol		Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 4:10:23 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Hi Gavin. The best advice that I can offer about this is: Be completely "UP-front" Take the time to go and see the owner/s, and be Completely honest about your intentions so as to hopefully avoid future misunderstandings. And dont take liberties with their land/gear/fences/gates or animals etc. This also means that you dont leave bloody great holes all over the place(fill them in neatly.)and leave the places as tidy as you found them! Treat them with respect,and its usually reciprical. Mind you, there are some owners that will tell you to F--- off without listening to anything you wish to say.(In this case just Go.) Cheers---Colin.
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gavin		Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 6:59:21 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Cheers Colin. Anyone know of any online service that would allow you to click on a map and find out who owns the land? Crown Minerals provides such a similar service for seeing what permits are held against land and by whom.
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criticol		Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 3:06:58 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		HI GUYS. Maybe ive just done a dumb thing ? as I have sent an e-mail off to our Prime Minister on a heartfelt subject. I thought that you may like to read it, as it impacts on our Hobby. Letter follows: To the Prime Minister of “OUR” New Zealand Hello John. Greetings from the Coromandel Penninsular. My name is Colin Atkinson, and I wish to ask you for a privilege that will be of immense benefit to fellow gold fossickers and metal detectorists in New Zealand, who are being alienated further and further away from the pastime hobby that they love and enjoy, by the almost impossible task that they face when confronted by having to attempt to conform and comply with the requirements of the current “Mining Act” in their small capacities as individuals. There is also the fact that most of them do not possess the financial means to even apply for a license anyway. Let alone pay all the legal fees involved to carry this act to fruition. Cap in hand, I humbly suggest, by asking you to consider re-instating similar regulations as those that applied to the “Miners Right” that existed years ago to help those single and destitute old fellows to possibly keep their noses above water in the old days, and hopefully obtain a subsistence life style of sorts. I’m not saying that this privilege should confer on the holder all the same terms and conditions that the old Miners Right did, but that it give Individual rights to a person to fossick and or prospect on Crown / Conservation lands, and also within river/stream or creek beds/banks, or other lands (private lands with permission), or wherever it will not create a great impact on other persons pastimes etc. I sort of suggest that this Privileged Right (If granted) be called: “The Individuals (Non Amalgamating) Prospecting privileges.” Which will confirm areas similar to the above mentioned types, and also give rights of sale to a Government agency (like a “Bank” or registered Gold buyer, etc.) in the off chance that if the lone individual should have a little luck in their fossicking efforts and pick up a bit of gold.This is because as the laws stand in this respect, a person cannot sell any small finds of gold they may procure through their diligence of perseverance with their hobby. Many of us, as of this moment, are through ignorance, actually breaking the Mining laws quite unintentionally, and I personally don’t think that they should be put in this risky situation due to a misdemeanor of theirs, which is solely caused by being shut out of the prospecting loop by the removal of a basic regulation years ago by some politician who neglected to have the foresight that seems to be necessary to correct this concerting problem which is now faced by the hobbyist who means no harm to anyone, but has to face these difficult hurdles that have been placed squarely in their path of pursuing their recreational activities and enjoyments. I remain in full anticipation that you may be so considerate as to make this commitment on our behalf to correct this seemingly Injustice?. “Please” Yours most sincerely and respectfully---Colin. N. Atkinson. Regards---Colin.
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kiwisouth		Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 4:00:51 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Medals: Groups: Registered Joined: 3/04/2010(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: Blenheim (Renwick) Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 105 time(s) in 83 post(s)		I reckon you should get a medal. I remember when "User pays" started. Miner's rights went from $8 to $80. I would happily pay that much, like a fishing licence but open season all year and all parts of NZ
		Nulli Illigitimi Carborundum
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criticol		Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 4:51:38 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Hi Guys I just came across this "Interesting" report by “Stuff .co”(25/5/2010.) I have taken names etc out, and rewritten the essential parts.(you can pass some time by reading it) Doc seizes gold dredge from a stream in the South Island. They are investigating the illegal use of a suction dredge to look for gold on conservation land near Nelson. Under the Crown Minerals Act, fossicking for gold without a permit carries a fine up to $200,000 or up to two years' imprisonment. The dredge, was found by staff in a tributary of a stream on public conservation land. It was within an area where a two year prospecting permit for gold had been issued by Crown Minerals, the holders of which found the dredge (and an established camp) and reported it to Doc and the police, who are investigating. This dredge weighed approx 20 kg, and was driven by a 4 stroke motor. Cheers---Colin. P.S. Did this belong to one of you Nelson fellers? :)
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criticol		Posted : Thursday, 17 June 2010 3:02:52 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Hi all. The problem that the small gold fossikers like us face today in New Zealand is that their hobby practices seem to clash with those of the big companies (who want exclusitivity to their licensed grounds) and also with those of our Government, who desire to rake in lots of $$$s in larger amounts in one foul swoop, rather than the minor $s obtainable from a motley collection of people like us. To retain this pecking order of selectivity they absolutely exclude the wishes of the smaller minority groups of individual persons. WHY? Our money is as good as anybody’s, even though it would be obtained in smaller amounts. Why cant we obtain a small concession of some sort from the Government so that we may participate in this mining game? The quandary caused by the Mining companies with granted licenses: Why do these companies forbid us to fossick or detect on their claims? Is it really going to hurt, or cause them massive problems with their operations? Of course not! The only way that they could ever get all the gold debris that should naturally lie scattered about over the “Surface” grounds of these claims, and streams etc, is if they “Saturate mine” the “ENTIRE” area completely down to the underlying bedrocks of the area and process the entire lot! Environmentally, they would in no way be allowed to do this even if they could, plus the fact that they are not allowed to foul any waterways, which they would certainly do by digging up the whole drainage system for the area.. So, as they cant operate their complete claim areas with a rip-shit-or bust attitude and leave it devoid of any “Bedrock” covering of protective strata, or protective greenery, then where is the harm in allowing the fossiker to peacefully wander over the areas that they are not working on, as long as the fossicker keeps well away from the mining companies areas of operations. These non-worked areas of most companies can span over a very considerable extent of the claimed ground, which in most instances is never even worked or considered of a value to the companies operations during the lifetime of their Main mine, or any off shoots from them. These companies, claim, and tie up hundreds and even thousands of hectares of within their licences, with no hopes of completely denuding the area, and mostly only confine their immediate operations to roughly 10% of these grounds, which leaves the other 90% in limbo for X amount of years, effectively stopping the fossicker from entering on to the land and fossicking for measly amounts of gold. Also they cant touch any creeks that may permeate the area, or the 20 meter strip of reserved land to either side of “Anywhere” any of those creeks etc, exceed a width of 3meters ! (These strips of land used to be called the (“Queens chain“, (they are actually Crown land) and allowed public access on the sides of these streams.) so why are the mining companies allowed to disregard this fact, and basically ban public access” What or who gives them the right to attempt to exclude fossicking in these creeks by individuals, because this exemption is a “Stated” feature of the Mining Act that is applicable to new Zealand. And why does only the South Island contain “All” of the public fossicking areas? (anybody know?) Are the North Island people considered “Not good enough” to get this privilege. (There is some alluvial gold to be obtained in the North Island to those who persevere.) Just curious! Cheers---Colin. P.S. If I am boring you with all this stuff, just say so.
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mintcar		Posted : Friday, 18 June 2010 4:36:35 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Nugget Medals: Groups: Registered Joined: 30/03/2010(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: nelson Thanks: 102 times Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Hi Colin No you don't bore me colin great letters keep it up Regards Bill.

gavin		Posted : Friday, 18 June 2010 8:01:09 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		I agree - finding your posts interesting and informative! :)
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criticol		Posted : Friday, 18 June 2010 10:44:24 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Cheers Guys. Thanks for the nice supporting words fellers, much appreciated :) I always think that I have run out of things to say that might just help clarify a situation, but somehow something always crops up.(Bad Penny like,ehh) Regards---Colin.
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x-terra steve		Posted : Friday, 18 June 2010 11:35:02 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Medals: Groups: Registered Joined: 7/04/2010(UTC) Posts: 224 Location: Nelson NZ Thanks: 103 times Was thanked: 69 time(s) in 42 post(s)		Hi Colin, All good info that you are posting! Keep tapping the keys and have a good weekend. Steve

criticol		Posted : Monday, 5 July 2010 2:53:21 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Greetings to “All” the members of this forum. Also to any others who may hold an interest in its aims to help the recreational gold “fossicking” persons of New Zealand to achieve their small dreams of being able to look for gold. This aim can not be achieved “Freedom-wise” without us “Somehow” getting around all the hassles that are currently presented to us in the form of the excessive Governmental mining regulations which exist at the moment to stifle our hobby. The only ways around these regulations at the moment is “Illegal” We should also be able to “Legally” sell any gold found whilst enjoying our hobby. With this tentatively in mind I wrote to the “Prime Minister” suggesting that a concession of sorts, be granted to us Hobbyist gold seekers. ( Refer to the earlier posts in this forum of approx 16/6/2010 ) As a result of that letter, I have received the following reply from the Honorable Minister of Energy and Resources--- Gerry Brownlee! Which looks like it may possibly be a precursor (hopefully) of a least giving us a fighting chance to achieve some sort of a reasonable outcome, “If we can get it all together”. Just think what this could mean to our hobby in New Zealand. He mentions that a discussion document will (shortly?) be available from their website, www.crownminerals.govt.nz Along with the ability to make submissions on our behalf. Please keep an eye on this site, and when the document appears, please “POST” an “Alert” in “This” forum so that All members are made aware that it is available, and may send in a submission to support this good cause. Sincerely---Colin. : ) Reply Letter follows: Office of Hon Gerry Brownlee MP for lIam Minister for Economic Development Minister of Energy and Resources - 5 JUL 2010 Colin Atkinson, criticol.co.nz Dear Mr Atkinson. I refer to your email of 16 June 2010 regarding the current statutory provisions for recreational gold mining. As Minister of Energy and Resources I am responding to your email on behalf of the Prime Minister, Hon John Key, and my colleagues Hon Kate Wilkinson and Hon Nick Smith. I am aware that hobby gold mining operations have been a popular recreational activity in the West Coast and Otago regions for many decades. I also appreciate that gold fossicking areas are the only places where hobby mining activities can be legally undertaken without the need for a mining permit. I note your concern that gaining tenure to suitable land, by way of a mining permit, is becoming Increasingly problematical for some gold fossickers and metal detector users due to the relatively high permit application and compliance costs involved. You have suggested the introduction of something similar to a Miner's Right, as was granted under the provisions of the Mining Act 1971, might be a way around this. At present mining permits are required to undertake recreational gold mining activities, such as beach sand and suction dredge gold mining. I can advise that my officials have recently undertaken a review of the allocation provisions for hobby gold mining as this activity would appear to carry an unnecessarily high compliance burden. The allocation provisions for recreational gold mining will therefore be considered in the legislative and regulatory review that the Government is presently undertaking. Part of the process for this review is to disseminate a discussion document for public comment. Details of the discussion document will be made available on the Crown Minerals website www.crownminerals.govt.nz I invite you to participate in that process by way of a submission when this document is released. Hon Gerry Brownlee Minister of Energy and Resources Private Bag 18041, Parliament Buildings, Wellington 6160, New Zealand. Telephone 6448176802 Facsimile 644 817 6502
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gavin		Posted : Tuesday, 6 July 2010 4:47:11 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Fingers crossed for a favourable law change! Nice work Colin.
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goldtimer		Posted : Wednesday, 7 July 2010 3:07:57 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Flake Groups: Registered Joined: 8/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: New Zealand Thanks: 5 times Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 9 post(s)		Colin, good work!! If all of the fossickers in New Zealand got together and started writing letters and making noise then the rules would soon be changed. As soon as the politicians see that changing the rules might get them some extra support next election, they'll think about getting off their backsides and doing something about it. The squeaky door gets the oil.....

gavin		Posted : Friday, 9 July 2010 3:04:32 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Do you think some sort of petition would help?
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goldtimer		Posted : Friday, 9 July 2010 3:20:32 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Flake Groups: Registered Joined: 8/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: New Zealand Thanks: 5 times Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 9 post(s)		A petition would be a good place to start I'm guessing. If everyone on this forum got everyone they know that's into fossicking to sign up, there'd be a lot of signatures. There are a LOT of guys out there that don't have anything to do with the forums. GT.

gavin		Posted : Friday, 9 July 2010 6:21:50 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Anyone know about petitions and the right way to go about them? I guess I could set up an online one on www.paydirt.co.nz so we could have a central place to capture names for it. Just a matter then of emailing the link to people. Then if someone else would be willing to submit the details to the powers that be once we've finished collecting names... any volunteers?
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criticol		Posted : Saturday, 10 July 2010 3:55:42 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		Hi Gavin, and all the members of this forum. I applaud your suggestion that this forum starts a petition to gather signatures etc, as this step may help strengthen the cry for something to be done in the “Fossickers” favour. If this cry is answered by the powers that be, then it should/may just alleviate some of the technical mining problems that could possibly arise to any of us as we apply the “Joys” ? Of our hobby. (like getting arrested, or having all your expensive gear confiscated, or smashed up.) of course there’s always the distant chance that the last could happen to you too. I put forward the suggestion that all other gold minded forums in New Zealand should also be notified if a petition is imminently viable in the near future, with the suggestion that their memberships are also welcome to sign the petition that’s presented on this forum. (The more the merrier) As to a volunteer needed to present it, Do we really need one ? apart from the forums own memberships signatures, which ( I presume) can then be electronically submitted to the Govt member involved in such things, and could possibly be done when their “New” fossicking document is up for public debate. With that little bit of my chest, you may be interested to visit the link below, which a fellow member (“Mintcar“ ) alerted me to. http://new.dpi.vic.gov.a...cking/miners-rights-faqs The site lays out all the rules that apply to the Aussie fossicker. (these“Aussie rules“ are very similar in all states.) These fellers have got the Icing still on their cake. Not like us, we haven’t even got any cake! Another suggestion is, that if our petition should come to fruition, it should maybe point this site out in a cover letter. ( or maybe somebody on the forum could even “Cull” some good points from it that suit our N.Z conditions, to accompany our petition. (so as to allow to have a good fruitful fossick around the “Whole” country) I’ll leave this open, and entirely up to debate, and hopefully a suitable solution will be forthcoming soon. Cheers---Colin.
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Karl McDowell		Posted : Sunday, 11 July 2010 10:24:36 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Nugget Groups: Registered Joined: 11/07/2010(UTC) Posts: 47 Location: Auckland Thanks: 13 times Was thanked: 39 time(s) in 29 post(s)		Hi all Whilst not strictly on-topic I would be happy to help out if anyone needs information about land tenure for their fav fossicking area. I work as a freelance Geographic Information System (GIS) analyst and can produce maps at any scale showing your spot in relation to things such as legal boundaries of Crown Minerals permits, DOC land, private land and such like. I have most geospatial datasets on-hand for NZ so if you ever need a map grab some GPS waypoints and let me know. Cheers Karl

criticol		Posted : Sunday, 11 July 2010 12:35:06 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 14/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: coromandel Thanks: 72 times Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 48 post(s)		HI Karl. Guess youd be a good bloke to know in this game. You may find that you grt a lot of a friends. Cheers---Colin.
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