Originally Posted by: Strider 
Gee Lamerlaw, I wasn't expecting such a long reply to one question. However I will do my best to answer your numerous questions and seemingly incorrect assumptions. I know statistically speaking, few people normally read long looking posts so I expect very few will read the following.
Firstly, I don't have anything against Oroplata or his selection of video's. In fact I'm pretty sure I myself have attempted to raise the issue of income inequality in previous posts. My gripe as such is with the maker of the video for slanting his data and not providing an accurate description of where he got his data from.
Secondly, I didn't watch the report on One as I don't have a T.V as I spend most of my time working towards making ends meet. This is why income inequality in New Zealand and not so much USA actually strikes a cord with myself. I feel discussing NZ income inequality more appropriate as we actually have some power to address this, but more on that later.
Thirdly, I dont think I mentioned anything about New Zealand's mineral exports. But I'm glad you brought it up. Yes I agree we should be storing SOME physical reserves as I'm a firm believer of keeping your powder dry. I think a range of commodities stored would be more responsible than relying solely on gold. I don't think I have ever heard of a fund manger recommending to someone that they should invest all their money in one stock.
Fourthly, having a swipe at one's integrity strikes pretty deep. I'm referring to your questioning of whether I'm an honest man. Before you start slinging mud, how about you do your own research and go back through my previous posts, (there's only a couple compared to your 1600+) and you will see that I do in-fact do my research.
Fifthly, you rant a lot. Anyone would think you are trying to cause some civil uprising. Do we require an Arab spring here in NZ? are conditions that bad that we need to result to such tactics? You asked whose minion I am, well I am the one who plays the hand I'm dealt and not otherwise. The only people in this country who have to power to bring the country to it's knee's are the farmers. If the dairy farmers decided to pour all their milk down the drain tomorrow and for the following week it would bring the economy and the government to its knees. But why do such an act, there is no need.
Yes income inequality is hurting a lot of us but a revolt of the current financial system will most likely cause more harm then good. If you somehow managed to get everyone to withdraw their money from the banks, causing a 'bank-run', yes you would indeed crash the the fractional reserve banking system. But you would also kill all exports. No one would want to trade or invest with us as they could not guarantee that their money would be safe in our banks as we have displayed that we do acts of reckless stupidity that jeopardise the stability of the economy. Now this is a slightly different situation, but how many people will place their money in banks in Cyprus now that their banking system has been jeopardise. This may have been cause by an external party and notably one with a lot of power but the effect on the banking system is the same. If you shock the banking system, no one wants to partake in it. Do you really want New Zealand to give the finger to the rest of the world and say stuff you we're doing this on own. This country relies heavily on its exports, do you really want to jeopardise that. Do you really want to jeopardise the lives of all the families who suffer from income inequality, the workers who are responsible for creating the exports
So the fractional reserve banking system is the hand we have been dealt. If we didn't have it, $10 in the bank would stay that way and banks wouldn't be able to lend money so people could go and buy land as investments as you said you did before you edited your post when you mentioned how you made your money through investments in land, gold and silver. Fifty years ago, as you pointed out income inequality was much less severe and it was easier for a man/woman to buy land then. You may have even brought it freehold as was possible then. But the fact of the matter is, that for most of us, we need a loan to buy a house these days. Without fractional reserve banking, that would most likely not be possible.
Instead advocating social disorder and trying to change the world with one big ugly swipe, why not take baby steps. Yes the fractional reserve banking system has flaws as with every system known to man. So why not promote increasing the reserve requirements. This would reduce the risk of the system and a repeat of the 2008 GFC. Additionally it may cool property the market as the banks will not be able to lend so easily. This was just an example. My main point here is change does not have to come by way of the sword. If you want to bring change, do it POSITIVELY with small steps. If you bring down the whole house your going to have a bloody mess.
Times are changing though Lammerlaw and I don't believe the way forward is going back 50-60 years. 50 years ago your main forms of investment were property and for a lucky few gold and stocks. However now there is crowd sourcing, ETF's, Forex, Futures etc, and the line between investment and trading has become distorted. Therefore yes our tax laws do need to change. Not only do the tax loop holes of the wealthy need to be addressed, but so do the ones regarding investment. The key reason being; at the moment, there are many utilising these loop holes whilst they GAMBLE in the financial markets. Additionally, there has been much gambling in residential investment over the last decade as people buy and sell on the basis that they believe the value will increase in a short space of time.
Did you know the Greens promote getting rid of the Fractional Reserve Banking system? Perhaps you should vote for them next election.
De Minion
Every person on this forum can read for themselves the pros and cons and it is quite evident that you and I could never agree...and so Mr Self confessed De Minion you are becoming personal - you say that I 'rant a lot' and to be quite honest I think that you do to - goodness if it has taken you only a couple of posts to do that much then heaven knows what you will come up with by the time you get to my 1600+!!! When it comes to ranting dont you think the pot calls and kettle black?
Times are indeed changing AND NOT FOR THE BETTER. The widening gap between rich and poor are proving this BUT this world might be better for the wealthy and the minions of the wealthy.
I am very well aware of the application of Fractional Reserve Banking to the loaning of money but it has effectively bankrupted this country or is that what YOU want to see as we borrowed the money under that system.
Well I shall not rant - you may though and I am sure most people would agree that your defence of a criminal system is indeed rather intriguing to say the least.
Did I question your integrity? Surely not - I believe I said ' I suggest that YOU do your own research and if you are an honest man you can only come to the same conclusions as some of us' - how could you possibly read the material that is available and ignore it?
You talk pure twaddle if you call that questioning your integrity - AND then you get personal - doesnt say much for you does it? An indication maybe that you are losing the plot of the discussion and so revert to personal attacks..
I do not know if you have read all the material that is available and if you have not then you may be putting forward your argument on the basis of limited knowledge - Is that questioning your integrity? I should think not. What I say means that IF you care to read all that is available and you are honest then you will indeed admit that what you have been saying is incorrect. I fail to see how you could possibly be convinced that what you say is correct if you read and digest all the information that is available and then look at the state of Western world finances and the growing gap between the haves and the have nots.
Advocating social disorder? In what way do I advocate social disorder by merely suggesting that people wake up and get rid of a criminal system and replace it with a system that belongs to the people - To, for and by the people - surely you recognize that. Maybe you should look more at what Lincoln advocated - 'Lincoln was saying that the government which governed the people, was taken from the people themselves, rather than from a hereditary, aristocratic class and operated for the good of the people, rather than the benefit of someone else.' - of course we know what happened to one of the US most honourable and honest politicians dont we? AND that brings in an interesting point - Lincoln was assassinated and He was trying to introduce financial reform...He saw what was happening when you apparently 150 years later cannot - Oops.
You may rant on if you so wish. Your words 'Fifthly, you rant a lot. Anyone would think you are trying to cause some civil uprising. Do we require an Arab spring here in NZ? are conditions that bad that we need to result to such tactics' - and you accuse me of ranting - fuck off.
Your words 'Before you start slinging mud, how about you do your own research and go back through my previous posts, (there's only a couple compared to your 1600+) and you will see that I do in-fact do my research.' - Hypocrisy will get you no where..with reference to 'Before you start slinging mud' ...and are you sure that you have not made similar posts under another profile?
Now I will assume that you are going to reply after all if you are who I think you are then you will be just as pig headed as I am and because I do not like personal dirt slinging as you seem to enjoy I shall maybe let you lower yourself and have the last say or as you use the word 'rant' I shall let you have the last rant! Only a couple of posts? - your doing really well.
Edited by user Monday, 10 June 2013 5:15:49 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
